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Strictly Surveying
Posted by goodgps on February 15, 2018 at 4:21 pm
Hi folks,
is there anyone out there (older than me) who can remember when the beginning of the PK nail was used ? I found on is a position that was supposedly established in 1956, however, I am most certain they didn’t set a PK. The PK is pretty good for position, but I don’t want to call it per that reference.
Thank you all and have a wonderful weekend . Good PDOP (precision) to all
Dave H
BruceSmall replied 2 years, 11 months ago 20 Members·27 Replies
27 Replies
jaro
Member
February 15, 2018 at 4:39 pm
Years ago I found some PK Nails that did not have a divot in the center. They were collecting dust at an old family owned lumber yard. That leads me to believe there was a purpose for PK nails before they became a standard for surveying purposes. Did yours have a divot?
James
gromaticus
Member
February 15, 2018 at 4:40 pm
My dad started using PKs probably in the early 1970s.
If my memory is correct (and it might not be), the early versions did not have the handy dot in the center ?? those were added later (I would guess in the 1980s?).
So if yours has the dot, it wasn’t set in 1956…
james-vianna
Member
February 15, 2018 at 4:57 pm
search this site, there has been discussion on this befoire.
Jim
a-harris
Member
February 15, 2018 at 5:52 pm
First saw a PK nail in the early 70s that had a crosshatched head with rifled pattern on the stem.
We used the 3/4in length thru a bottle cap, washer or other spinner primarily to set in concrete.
Super hard and very brittle, too many strikes and the head would come off.
Tap into place and then slam them flush as possible without smashin’ you fingertips.
Having a sharp point was a necessity.
Best results using a Hilti 22cal driver.
paden-cash
Member
February 15, 2018 at 6:59 pm
The first PKs with a dimple on the head that I ever saw were set prior to 1968.It was on aBureau of Reclamation dam construction and they were used as references and corners in asphalt.
jaro
Member
February 15, 2018 at 7:42 pm
Buy the book from 1945 and see what they had available at the time 🙂
dave-karoly
Member
February 15, 2018 at 7:57 pm
1958 – Charles Walker set a P-K nail in a rock for a random traverse point. I found it last year.
Charles Walker’s field note page:
The P-K nail, this is the best picture I have:
Norman_Oklahoma
Member
February 15, 2018 at 8:05 pm
I recall this question being asked some years back. At that time somebody (Kent?) came up with a catalogue/price list for PKs from the 1930’s, as I recall.
j-penry
Member
February 20, 2018 at 8:53 pm
The Parker-Kalon Companywas formed in 1922 with the merger of the Parker Supply Company of New York City and the Kalon Company of Jersey City, NJ. The earliest reference I have found was in a 1938 catalog where they show the masonry nails. The early nails were never intended to be used for survey nails, but after widespread use by surveyors, the company started making them with the center divot. I don’t think they are being produced anymore. Parker-Kalon was absorbed by Emhart Teknologies and then Stanley.
Crashbox
Member
February 21, 2018 at 2:52 am
I think the last year they were made was in 2012 or so.
Once about ten years ago, I had set a temp point with a MAG nail to represent a (destroyed) mon position which- after some additional analysis- I determined was off by about 0.06 feet or so. I was also working closely with another surveyor who was working in this exact same area, and I mentioned that it could result in confusion if they set another MAG nail close by. The solution: they would set a P-K nail where they thought the mon should go. The measured distance between them was 0.06 feet. I was wrong.
I still have a couple dozen or more left, including the Texas-sized ones. “If it’s P-K it’s OK” or something similar was their slogan IIRC.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven’t yet found.
chsmith
Member
February 9, 2019 at 2:37 pm
Interestingly, My grandfather retired in 1966 from Parker Kalon and going through pictures today I found a letter from Mr. Kalon thanking him for 32 years in service. I also found large pictures from their Christmas party Dec 14 1934 ..and their 6th annual dinner dance 1940. I am going to check with the Smithsonian and see if they want them. They are in mint condition , just a small tear at the end.
nate-the-surveyor
Member
February 9, 2019 at 4:45 pm
https://www.cknj.com/content/parker-kalon-manufacturing-close
I wish Chris-Nick could acquire whatever is left of PK. This would avoid the confusion of mh nails being called pk’s. Also, mh stands for ManHole. This is another point of confusion. “Fd. MagHub Nail” is not as easy to type as Fd. PK in C/L.
I’m sort of a stickler. If my plat says “Fd. 3/4″ pipe”, it should not be actually a 1″ pipe. We are surveyors. We measure, document, and provide a historic trail. This trail should not be filled with discrepancies, unless we want our veracity to be questioned.
We sometimes will be dead, gone, or in the nursing home, when this young fancy surveyor retraces our work. If we are reliable surveyors, our work will live on in honor. If we are leaving a trail filled with discrepancies, then we will live on in infamy and dishonor.
Leave a good trail.
Nate
a-harris
Member
February 9, 2019 at 6:40 pm
I don’t set many things in places where I need a PK nail anymore.
They were absolutely necessary when setting in any road during winter and in concrete anytime.
An engineering firm I worked for would only get the 3/4in PK nails and they were a finger buster whether it went in or not.
Now I drill a hole and put in all or part of a 60d and stamped washer or other adequate from rebar with a cap to round head bolt over a stamped washer.
jamesf1
Member
February 9, 2019 at 9:18 pm
“Fd. MagHub Nail” ? What?
nate-the-surveyor
Member
February 9, 2019 at 9:32 pm
I’m finding M/H nails, generically called PK nails.
MagHub nails are the replacement for the (now defunct) PK nail.
Nate
john-putnam
Member
February 9, 2019 at 10:49 pm
Nate,
If we are being precise, the ChrisNik replacement for PK nails is the MagNail. MagHubs are more like a 60 penny nail and come in 4″, 6″ or 8″ lengths. The MagSpike is a longer thicker version of the MagNail.
I’m not sure I can (or would) use either for anything other than control in the states I’m licensed in.
stephen-ward
Member
February 9, 2019 at 11:57 pm
I use the mag-nails for control in pavement or drilled into concrete. I’ve used mag-spikes for center-line control in subdivisions when I wanted a monument that was easily spotted without a magnetic locator. I only use mag-hub-nails for traversing and other semi-temporary control in soil or gravel.
rapp
Member
November 19, 2020 at 6:04 pm
I found some without a duvet yesterday. Are they worth anything?
rj-schneider
Member
November 20, 2020 at 12:59 am
Posted by: @a-harris
Tap into place and then slam them flush as possible without smashin’ you fingertips.
That takes some skill. I can swing a hammer but, Have no idea how many PKs or MAGs I’ve turned into high-velocity armor-piercing projectiles. There’s a lot to that skill.
jaro
Member
November 20, 2020 at 2:38 am
@rapp I doubt it but I have no way of knowing what they may or may not be worth
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